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Drupal vs. Joomla: a frank comparison from an IBM consultant
We were very fortunate recently to have a consultant from IBM purchase one of our Drupal themes for a personal project. Before purchasing the theme, we discussed a bit about Joomla and Drupal, focusing mostly on the difference between where functionality and eye candy lies in Drupal vs. Joomla.
I say fortunate because after this consultant evaluated the two CMSes, I received an email with a fascinating and detailed comparison of these early experiences with Drupal and Joomla. I was allowed to post this (anonymously) here to our blog so the community(ies) at large can benefit from this great write-up.
I won’t interject too much of my own thoughts here, other than that a) I agree with just about everything being said here, and b) the good news is that a ton of this stuff is a strong focus for Drupal 7. I see the Drupal community also putting more effort into the many approaches currently being worked on for pre-configuring/populating a site (Installation profiles, Patterns, Spaces, Drush, etc).
Edit: we’re getting some very interesting comments from Joomla users as well, make sure you read the comments!
The full email follows below
FYI, here are my observations on Drupal after about 40-50 hours with the tool (I have experience with Joomla, DotNetNuke, and of course our solution at IBM: Websphere Portal, WCM, and Portlet Factory). I plan to evaluate for another few days, before making a decision on whether to implement using Joomla or Drupal. The hosting costs and portlet dev cost for Websphere Portal are too high, or I’d be using an IBM solution.
Drupal vs. Joomla
Site Building
- Flexibility & Power: Drupal looks significantly more powerful — much more flexible. Looks like Views, CCK, Panels give Drupal a huge advantage over Joomla. You simply can’t get that flexibility with Joomla. Joomla developers design around their own paradigm with very little flexibility. You can get up and running much quicker with Joomla, but you will hit the wall sooner or later.
Performance
- In my initial tests, Drupal blows away Joomla. With the new version of Joomla, the good template makers junk them up with gee-whiz gadgets that are not suitable for the enterprise
Learning Curve
- Joomla is far easier to get up and running. Even with all the free videos, blogs, etc, Drupal is still a lot more challenging. Big oppty for comprehensive business business/enterprise book/education
Templates
Joomla wins by a huge margin. For example, companies like Joomlart, Joomlashack do a good job. Drupal theme companies are simply horrific. What’s needed is a Template strategy that emulates the requirements for the top web sites in the country and, bundles modules, blocks etc. that work out-of-the-box to give businesses a head-start. For example, with our Websphere Portal product, we deliver incredible Themes/Skins that are rock solid and professional with no fuss or muss. I think you guys have a good stated strategy, but you’re missing a big oppty to deliver what enterprises really need.
Your templates are the best I’ve seen, but, an enterprise that is just getting started with Drupal will still have a huge ramp to climb to get a News site, mag site, etc. to look good. Joomlart delivers their Teline II template with a special install that gives you all the sample data, all the components in place — everything in place.
Finally, the biggest problem with Drupal templates is that the developers completely miss one of the key elements that any evaluator looks at: the menu system. If you don’t have a professional navigation system on your web site, you’re perceived as a low quality site. The other top items: Layout, Graphics, speed are also critical, and Drupal developers don’t seem to care. Exception:
Code developers
Based on my limited review, it looks Drupal coders are much more professional, skilled, disciplined. Good Joomla coders are rare. Must have something to due with the Drupal culture. I’m sure the Joomla devs are just as capable, they just don’t institute the same rigor
Admin
Drupal’s backend admin functionality is bad. The front end, backend separation is tenuous and confusing. Joomla is far better.
Content Management
- Drupal’s taxonomy system is excellent. Joomla’s "straight-jacket" approach (Content items confined to one Section/Category) is poor. Joomla’s admin console is much easier to organize, find content. Joomla’s WYSIWYGPro is better than the options available for Drupal.
Content Presentation
- Drupal’s tools are very, very good — they don’t come close to the built-in power of IBM tools — but they’re light years better than Joomla. I like CCK, Views, but wonder why they aren’t part of the code base. Seems odd. WIth Joomla, you have to acquire components that will meet 60-80% of your needs. For example, iJoomla has a tremendous news component, but it will never meet the capabilities of Drupal’s CCK, Views, etc.
Multitier Deployment
I’m shocked that there are no good tutorials, articles, education on the proper method for implementing Dev, Test, Staging, Dev environments. Drupal and Joomla communities both suffer from this. Also, basic backup and restore is not addressed adequately. The Drupal community is clueless on this. Joomla at least has two good solutions. If I decide to recommend Drupal for a production site, I’l recommend use Xcloner from Joomlaplug — this product will work with Drupal and does backup and restore of the site and the SQL db.
Summary to Date
- Use Joomla if you want to get nice looking site up quickly and can deal with a slower system, rigid content categorization and limited design/configuration options.
- Use Drupal if you want high performance, scalability, good content management and significant design flexibility. But, be prepared to spend a lot of time/money to get the site to look professional.
I object on the part that backend and frontend should be different. Why should it be separated, why build 2 different systems for the same thing???
Other than that Drupal is better than joomla but yes needs lots of cool and customizable templates.
Gee whiz, an "IBM consultant!" Golly, how lucky we are to have this fount of wisdom weighing in on these two CMS!
After using dotNetNuke ('scuze me while I puke), both Joomla and Drupal must have seemed like a dream to use. Of course, the IBM consigliere is forced to slum because hosting costs are keeping him/her from using the IBM Websphere dream solution. Hmm . . . hopefully someone at IBM can afford to use it.
Seriously, however, at least this individual seems to be "coming along" in his/her knowledge. I just hope you didn't have to pay IBM consulting costs for the obvious lack of experience.
Evaluating various CMS for a project is always tough and I always like reading initial opinions/comparisons that are made between various systems. I would say this is a fair assessment of the consultant for both Joomla! and Drupal...at least as fair as any you'll find on the Internet. I will be curious to find out which CMS he finally decides on for his project.
Geshan, I'm not so sure the consultant is advocating the building of two systems for front end/back end in Drupal but that improvements do need to be made. I personally think Drupal's back end can be confusing and it isn't always clear to new users where the back end ends and the front end begins.
Enterprises love their software's UI to work consistently with all features and for all users. Drupal's admin menus are improving but there is still consistency and workflow issues needing to be improved. This is one of the reasons I've been glad to see Drupal's developers are taking a hard look at usability for D7.
Now, IMHO Joomla's back end design may be better in consistency, but I personally don't like Joomla's workflow. I've always felt Joomla's backend seemed rather dated and can't shake the feeling like Mambo's ghost still lurks around. I'm sure Joomla fans will argue the improvements and benefits that have been made in Joomla (including J! 1.6)...but no matter how much I want to like Joomla! I feel no love.
Agreed on most counts. I wouldn't touch Joomla with an eleven-foot pole, but that's because I'm a professional coder and I wouldn't want to take responsibility for its shortcomings. I care too much about the quality and performance of the complex custom sites I deliver to my clients. But admittedly, Drupal is not built for copy-paste-hackers or carpetbagging bloggers. If your site is dirt simple and you want it to be running this afternoon (albeit slowly), use Joomla by all means. Leave the more complex Drupal work to the professional software developers, where it belongs.
In my experience the best Drupal themes are usually built custom for individual sites. Thats why all the big Drupal sites look different from each other. I think this is part of the Drupal philosophy. Drupal is not trying to be the CMS for everyone. Drupal is a toolkit for professional developers of custom web-based applications. That goes for the artists as well as the programmers.
Awesome article thanks for negotiating to publish this viewpoint, and then stepping back. Interesting the forms api didn't come up.
Very nice you could get this published. No need to get defensive, he tells it like it is from the perspective of the experienced outsider. Most of the pain points we are aware of, but this is still very valuable input. Thanks.
Drupal = Community Plumbing. Not Community Landscaping.
Obviously, people seem to expect the backend differing from the frontend significantly, which was also confirmed by lasts years Drupal usability testing experiments. Nonetheless, I don't think Drupal should aim to have an admin interface that is completely separate from the public site. It is a matter of getting used to, and if you are you can get things done faster.
One of the weak points of Joomla mentioned, is that developers design around their own paradigm which may lead to a lot of frustration. I built some sites with Joomla and on every one of them I had problems with extensions not interacting well. This also results in a lot of duplicate functionality, which you can see in Drupal too, but to a far lesser extent.
We changed from cms dev about 2 years ago from Joomla! to Drupal, for a lot of reasons, that's why we know both systems.
I think both systems are best used for it's purposes. Joomla! for small companies, small administrator groups, no need for extensive content organisation, multi-site or acl. There's a lot of coding (3rd party) for Joomla! that fills these needs, but most of them build their own frames upon Joomla-cms, it doesn't use a uniform Node Based System (NBS). This makes this 3rd-party coding less flexible when it comes to migration to major updates. And it makes them less transparant.
Here is a 'frank' list of features that Drupal has on board, but we really miss in Joomla! core.
As said: it's very important to do a very good project discovery and choose the correct cms for your needs. The book "leveraging Drupal" gives a good insight on how to do a good project discovery. But off course there are a lot of other projects methods to do so.
I use Joomla regularly, and have nothing bad to say about Drupal since I've never used it, but I have to respond to Joris_Lucius' list in the post above. It sounds like you have only tried Joomla 1.0, not Joomla 1.5.
Joomla 1.5 does have all of these:
- Multilingual solutions (yes, there are at least two)
- Hook system
- Override system / templating
- Core polls, with better extensions available from 3rd parties.
Joomla 1.6 will come with a better ACL system.
There are also hooks in place to support 3rd party workflow mechanisms and version management, if you wish to implement that in your site/system.
3rd party extensions will also let you add taxonomy support, comments and downloads. I do not think that comments and downloads necessarily belongs in the core though, but that's another story.
A few things on the positive side for Joomla users and developers:
- A very large community
- Lots of commercial providers, both for developing custom apps and websites, setting up standard joomla sites and for hosting
- Many professional template services
- Very large extension catalog
- A new API, built from the ground in version 1.5
I do not know how Drupal compares in these areas, so I'll refrain from comparing Joomla to stuff I do not know anything about ;)
This is a very interesting read, thanks for putting it up.
He mentions backup and restore not being addressed, but there is a module he may not be aware of called Backup and Migrate. It only deals with the database at this point, but it's a start.
There's also this handy backup script, which creates a nice tarball of your files and your database. I use a modified version for my own sites.
I agree with the reviewer: Drupal themes are horrid. It is laughable. It holds Drupal back as a whole. Without a pro themer as part of your team, Drupal is unusable by most serious people. If Drupal doesn't fix this, it will die.
@YAPH: "Obviously, people seem to expect the backend differing from the frontend significantly, which was also confirmed by lasts years Drupal usability testing experiments."
Replace "people" with "people with prior experience with other CMS'es which do have a frontend/backend separation". Last years Drupal usability tests were also done with people used to Joomla et al.
"I use Joomla regularly, and have nothing bad to say about Drupal since I've never used it, but I have to respond to Joris_Lucius' list in the post above. It sounds like you have only tried Joomla 1.0, not Joomla 1.5."
--> We build a lot a 1.5 sites and know the Joomla! 1.5 architecture (please correct that on Twitter :-) )
"Joomla 1.5 does have all of these:
- Multilingual solutions (yes, there are at least two)"
--> Yes, but it's not core, it uses their own 'frame' what makes it less scalable and imagine the issues when you want to migrate to a core-i18n in future..
"- Hook system"
--> I asume you mean the 'plugin'-system, this system is not comparable with the hook-system of Drupal. With help of hooks, you can hook into all important system events of Drupal and act on that outside of the core. So you can alter core functions without hacking (oooo, what a nasty word ;-) )
"- Override system / templating"
--> You are right on this one, it uses a very nice MVC structure and module Chrome. Problem is, many 3rd party aren't designed the way they have to be and thus are not override-able. Let me empathize: there are also extensions that are programmed conform the best practice in Joomla!
"Joomla 1.6 will come with a better ACL system."
--> yes...but for how long now...Lots of credits to developers, but it seems like quite a time...?
"There are also hooks in place to support 3rd party workflow mechanisms and version management, if you wish to implement that in your site/system."
--> Indeed, there are extensions that are programmed conform the best practice of Joomla!-dev
"3rd party extensions will also let you add taxonomy support, comments and downloads. I do not think that comments and downloads necessarily belongs in the core though, but that's another story."
--> Yes, but it's not core, it uses their own 'frame' what makes it less scalable. Imagine the issues when you want to migrate to a core-taxonomy-system in future.
"A few things on the positive side for Joomla users and developers:
- A very large community
- Lots of commercial providers, both for developing custom apps and websites, setting up standard joomla sites and for hosting
- Many professional template services
- Very large extension catalog"
--> Indeed, the community is very open, good structured and very good for newbies.
"- A new API, built from the ground in version 1.5"
--> Indeed, again much credits to devs. And when you know how to use it, it is very powerfull
I do not know how Drupal compares in these areas, so I'll refrain from comparing Joomla to stuff I do not know anything about ;)
@Joris: Why do you insist on having so much functionality in the core? Joomla is moving more in the direction of a separation between the CMS and the Framework, allowing for users to pick the extensions they want to use, starting out from a lean base. If you don't want comments, taxonomy or i18n, you can just skip that from the core alltogether. Having banner management, comments, polls and default articles might belong in a from-the-shelf CMS, but I think it should be left out of the Framework, so I am all in favor of this separation.
As for "hacking" and hooking into system functionality, Joomla allows for all that with it's plugins hooks. All core classes are also overridable. Perfect if you want to change core functionality altogether, without "hacking" core code.
New ACL-system is alpha-ish these days. Screenshots have been released and you can always download 1.6 from SVN to check it out.
As for framework conformity from 3rd party developers, you can't force all people to be intelligent ;) With 1.6 though, the backwards compatibility will be reduced, and developers will have to migrate to MVC. It has been a slow but steady transformation from 1.0 legacy code to clean MVC-code, but I think that 1.5-era has been useful to make the transition as smooth as possible.
You sound like a real Drupal fan, so I am sure Drupal is very nice too :) I was just a bit confused by how this article portrays Joomla, and had to post a few of my cents ;)
One of the primary selling points that got me so interested in Drupal was the integration of the front end with the back end. In fact, when I try to sell Drupal to a client it is one of the first things I mention.
The ability to navigate the site as a regular user and be able to quickly jump to editing things here and there is a huge time saver and much more intuitive. And I agree, that many of the complaints about this may because of their experience with other CMSs that had this sort of borderline distinction between the front end and back end. People do want things that are familiar to them, but that doesn't mean we should cut such great functionality for the sake of familiarity.
Drupal has amazing flexibility that can only be served by this fuzzy distinction. We can allow a wide array of roles and permissions with a vast variety of available features for each role. The distinction between what is an "administrative task" and what is a "feature" becomes a fuzzy line in these larger websites (which is, I would say, Drupal's target market), and we would risk sacrificing usability by showing users of a website with a permissive role an administrative interface.
I will be extremely upset if the Drupal community tries to make a hard distinction between the front end and backend.
I don't think there is a need to create a separate backend for Drupal. If we incorporate a backend theme such as RootCandy, it solves the problem of separating backend and frontend without coding anything new and still giving flexibility to everyone to use it or not http://drupal.org/project/rootcandy
I started with Joomla as well. It was quick and easy to setup, and I had my website running in a matter of hours. Unfortunately, I quickly began to hit the limits of what Joomla could do.
The final straw was when I decided that I wanted multiple site logins. There was a module, but it made major changes into the core code. This meant future upgrades were going to be a major problem.
Drupal, however, gave you this option as part of its design. I've been mush happier with Drupal because of things like CCK and Views. Also with sites like Lullabot it's a lot easier to make the plumbing changes.
I'm a designer and have been using Drupal since 4.3 (5 years ago). I'm not a programmer by nature, but I still prefer Drupal to anything else I've tried. I've learned a lot about Drupal over the years. (I just launched a medical job board site that sends SMS/text messages to job seekers and I can't imagine doing that very quickly with any other system)
I have to say that Drupal's theme features are far above other community-based CMSs I've seen and tried. I like clean, lean code and flexibility in how things are displayed. (If you want to just plug in a theme for a blog, use Wordpress.)
Drupal's admin could use some work, but complaining about a lack of a separate backend-to-frontend is trivial, in my opinion. My clients love having a consistent interface for the back-end and forward-facing sides. I've seen systems that have two interfaces/sides and you have that silly 'preview page/site' link. That's an unnecessary step in the workflow. When I submit content, I should be able to see the final page upon submit.
I've seen some of the Joomla themes vs. Drupal themes and I've gotta say, while some of Drupal's may look basic, Joomla's look rather cookie-cutter (I've seen a lot of different colors of the same theme). Drupal isn't meant to be an end all/be all of themes. Content is king, and Drupal is very flexible in how that content is displayed, pulled in, etc. The learning curve is higher, but any powerful system is going to have a steeper learning curve. Could it be improved? Absolutely. Although, I still think Drupal has a better long-term approach for community sites (especially in theming and content display).
The best Drupal themes are not contributed back to the community because most of those are custom-built for specific clients and those clients paid for them and have rights to them. In regard to free themes, usage needs to be determined. Are you just putting up a personal site that you don't care about a unique design or are you building a niche community site that needs to stand out? Most users will wind up customizing it to suit their needs, anyway. If you are building a professional community site, they should be used as a starting point, not an end result.
The obvious reason is that the front end and back are not the same thing. Two vastly different user bases (in most cases) and always a different use case.
The best architecture is to leverage the core functionality, but present it and use it differently. Drupal's horrid UI plagues both front and back end. Joomla's problem is that the architecture essentially handcuffs you into a specific use case. This is the death of a solution for any portal usage.
I absolutely agree with "Summary to Date":
Drupal is more powerful and flexible, but you have to spend more effort for creating great site.
IMHO, Joomla is an instant meal, and Drupal is delicious meal from great cuisine.
I think Drupal is the BEST CMS.Anyway I have never spent one penny with Drupal.
My second choise is Wordpress.
Wordpress is for very simple websites like blog.
Drupal for more complex websites.
bye :)
Drupal is also a CMF (Content Management Framework)
Huh, having come from the ivory tower of Java enterprise systems, after procrastinating for a long time evaluating all sorts of CMS products, I finally decided to just deploy Drupal as it seemed to fit a recent need. I was actually impressed with its ease of installation (well...after working around a problem that prevents installation from behind my reverse proxy setup), as well as the themes that are available that can just be dropped in. Drupal was my "light" option (versus something like, say, LifeRay). So maybe I'm missing the boat, because the things that others are claiming are Drupal's weak points seem to be the strong points in my eyes. After having some concerns about quality (mostly because it's technology I am not that familiar with, and let's face it, there is a lot of crap php out there), I am pleasantly surprised to hear the testimonials to the quality of code and developer professionality in the Drupal community.
Thanks for the comparison, from another "outsider". :)
I am not sure which category I am in, as I started as a professional programer 30 years ago ....
"But admittedly, Drupal is not built for copy-paste-hackers or carpetbagging bloggers. If your site is dirt simple and you want it to be running this afternoon (albeit slowly), use Joomla by all means."
But have very limited experience with any web based work. I wanted to start to build better web sites and 'desk' reviewed the free CMSs - I don't want to spend cash - this is more for interest at this stage.
I identified Drupal & Joomla as likely candidates and started my real evaluations by building Drupal ... the problem I hit was it very quickly required more knowledge than I could easily 'google', the terminology was strange and how to get things done wasn't obvious. I felt that to proceed I would need something like a training course, or to invest a lot of time just understanding.
Joomla was completely different. It is just simple to get going and the basic set up is so easy to configure and you don't need to go anywhere near your server(as long as your ftp.d has a Umask of 022 otherwise you hit all sorts of permissions issues).
As I am addng more extension from the base Joomla I am beginning to spend more time resolving issues.
Once I have done some more with Joomla I might well have a look at Drupal again, maybe I'll find it easier second time round.
no offense to TNT or anything, but I've always built my drupal themes from scratch, mainly because I always have (or made) a design I have to start from, and I'm not going to take a theme close to the design and get hacking...
but looks like our consultant hasn't seen the backup and migrate module, which pretty much puts ur database in the palm of your hand
the rest is just downloading/uploading ur files, doesn't get much easier than that
(if you rly don't like to upload files, set up services to grab the content for u ;))
a while back a friend of mine was working on a project for school, and he decided to use joomla, he spent like a month trying to get it to work the way he wanted to before he called me
it took him like 30ish minutes to explain what he needed, next day I showed him what I had whipped up in an hour or 3 and it pretty much did exactly what he wanted it to do
and this was without any theming don't, just staight out-of-the-box Garland with some color and a bunch of modules, not a single line of custom code
I seriously don't get this whole "drupal is for only for developers", coz it's not... it can be very hard not to find a module that does pretty much exactly what u want it to
and if it doesn't, most things are overridable, thank you theme()!!
Listen, theming for Drupal doesn't make a whole lot of sense. WordPress, yes, but not Drupal. Drupal generally caters to people who need large, custom websites. How are you supposed to use a theme for something like that? You aren't. Anyone who uses a theme for a Drupal website is asking for failure.
Spend the money on the custom development and stand out from the crowd. Shit.
--> I asume you mean the 'plugin'-system, this system is not comparable with the hook-system of Drupal. With help of hooks, you can hook into all important system events of Drupal and act on that outside of the core. So you can alter core functions without hacking (oooo, what a nasty word ;-) )
@Joris
Can you give us a few examples about what kind of stuff hooks allow that cannot be achieved in Joomla? I'm just curious about it since I don't know much about Drupal.
"If you don’t have a professional navigation system on your web site, you’re perceived as a low quality site. The other top items: Layout, Graphics, speed are also critical, and Drupal developers don’t seem to care. Exception:"
Who are the Exception?
From what I have seen so far the TNT templates are very sound and professional, but I have not found a design to fit my (Small but ambitious IT Business) site idea.
I'm now looking at cutting a template from a PSD. Love to know where to go for a reasonable (triple digit) price.
George.
@George
Try psd2html. There are more services like psd2html, but I can't remember the names. They accept formats other than PSD as well. And they do CMS implementation (Joomla and Drupal included). No, I'm not an affiliate :)
Good. Really come at the right time. I'll go to Joomla at the moment, and swift to Drupal when times mature :)
I think both content management systems are awesome!!! I personally, use the one that fits my specific needs.
For small business clients Joomla is a perfect fit although it can be used for clients on a larger scale as well, it depends on the clients need. For something on a much larger scale, I would probably consider using Drupal. Although, Drupal can be very scary for end users that has already experienced using Joomla. Drupal is not user friendly at all but I took a notice of it because of all the documentations as well as watching videos of all the things it would allow me to do as a designer and developer that Joomla would take a very long time code wise trying to accomplish.
I also considered the fact that Drupal has more free modules and with Joomla in order to create more advanced features you have to purchase commercial licenses (which is not bad for some of the components). Some are just ridiculous, which makes me wonder what happen to the open source spirit.
Drupal on the other hand has great modules but they need some organization going on. If it wasn't for me purchasing all the books and watching the videos, I would have a very hard time trying to figure what Drupal modules do.
I simply love and appreciate them both, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but you select the one that's most appropriate for your project needs.
Some time ago, I tried to setup a site using Drupal. However, I decided to switch to Joomla (that was in the days of 1.0.x; now, I’m using 1.5.x, so things may be different). I’ve heard many times that it’s easier to develop in Drupal. That would be a good thing because customizing the Joomla install is a really big pain. However, there is one thing that Drupal users fail to understand that Joomla users get, and the “mystery” reason Joomla has a larger user base: the very concept of what a content management system is all about. A CMS is not intended to be a framework for developers, but a tool for the *end users/customer* to manage their own Website without the help of a developer. To that end, Joomla has the more user-friendly administrative interfaces. To add to that, Joomla makes it easier for developers to build custom site templates. Now, if the Joomla developers made it easier to customize and extend the application, then they would break from the competition. On the flip side, if the Drupal developers made their administrative interfaces more user-friendly and the template easier to customize, the same would also apply.
Hi, I'm coming in as a client.
I need to get a site up with my music, films, pdf downloads blogs.
It sounds like I'll need a Drupal developer, but it seems I won't be able to manage the content myself ?
Just a short comment from the outside world...
That kind of thinking is the very thing holding Drupal back. The plumbing is the core of Drupal's power, but you can't forget the landscaping. The web is a multimedia medium and Drupal needs to be sure to keep that in mind as it grows. The Drupal organiation is well aware of this and lots of time and energy has been going into cosmetic/aesthetic/usability development for Version 7. Stuff that a plumber would consider Landscaping.
Jason has it right. With Joomla I can hand over site control to neophyte business owner webmasters with just a few hours training. I sometimes add a little back end ACL so they can't obliterate the site by ignorantly clicking around. CB gives me what I need to build big communities, with various CB plugins that are easily tweaked and customized. At times I have to put extra effort to keep performance up, but I dont have enough FRESH data to know that the same is not true for Drupal if equally loaded. Excuse my ignorance, but how does Drupal stand on fully integrated components for Major Verticals like Real Estate or Bookings and Reservations or Learning Systems etc. Joomla extensions in these categories are quite impressive. Plug ins and a few code tweaks get me 'adequate' integration between these subsystems. More ignorant questions... does the Drupal dev community offer major extensions equivalent in scope and quality to SOBI, Seyret, JCE, UDDEIM, Acajoom Newsletter (etc). I am also seeing a surge in the number of useful admin tools and development tools in J1.5.
Feedback appreciated.
Baldman,
Using CCK which creates forms for the type of content you want to have makes managing easy.
I found managing content in Drupal easier than Wordpress especially if you want to cherry pick the conent you want to modify/delete/whatever (that may have changed in WP v2.6 and up)..I learnt what I know about drupal from google and stray videos from Learn by the drop etc. There are resources out there, just tricky to find. I just bought the latest Lullabot videos on CCK and Views and although I know that stuff now, it would shaved months off the learning process if I had them at the beginning. PS. i dont have any relationship with Lullabot.
can anyone tell me? which portal is used on this site.
i can bet this is drupal. u can look at the site it is containing much valuable information than any other site over this issue. but still it is looking a non-professional effort. why? Drupal lacks in templaiting.
Joomla has much less functionality than drupal. No doubt drupal is far better from joomla. But joomla is something when u have no options to choose.
we need much more professional looking CMS.
Doof. Joomla is a CMS. Drupal is a CMF. It's not like comparing apples to oranges. It's like comparing apples to DNA.
You can make a Drupal site easy for stupid people. You just write the UI yourself and don't give them full admin perms.
I use them both and also wordpress. I love them all as they serve to my purpose. They are different.
But it is a fact that these kind of comparisons are always raised by drupalers.
I have the sense that the drupal community is very fanatic.
The joomla users outnumber drupal users 10 times, maybe that's the reason they don't have these kind of complexes.
Drupal is a great system, but maybe they should try and do their marekting in a more elegant way.
I think that a BIG thing here is the relation betwen basic backup and restore, and production-test systems.
I'm in the middle of evaluating solutions as well, for a cost-limited implementation. Our selection process is a blind (meaning no reference to which "brand") process, where reqs are weighed and matched against features. Once the (external) analysts have done the comparisons and the business has made a selection, only then is the solution selected, and a post-selection audit is done.
In that light, this post isn't going to make one whit of difference -- but it is a bit on the educational side, although there is definitely a bias in the writing, unintentional or not - I just mention this because if this is reworked and the bias toned down or removed, it would make a good paper for consideration.
I thought the assessment was fair. The consultant's background was given to show any potential bias, tests were executed, and the issues addressed were noteworthy. The article was never meant to be a cage match where two CMSs enter, one CMS leaves. They both have their place. In spite of some meowing in a few responses, the comments had value too.
There's bias in all writing, in every act. Bias in deciding what to put on in the morning, what's for breakfast, etc. What's important is that perspectives are laid out in advance, and I thought that was done well.
Great article.
Not that many people use Drupal unfortunately. Joomla is a wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Drupal in fact no doubt.
It's very important to understand the different purposes of each CMS before comparing them. It seems many people - commenters and, to some extent, the consultant - don't understand this.
Drupal is not designed to be an install-and-go CMS. In fact, on drupal.org they refer to themselves as a Content Management Platform. What's the difference? Drupal may not give you the functionality needed for most sites out of the box, but it provides a platform to do pretty much anything you want - and it'll all work together to do it.
If you need a site that serves a very specific purpose that Joomla! has a plugin available for, and you won't be needing to extend the functionality much in the future, you may be fine going with Joomla!. You'll probably find a decent (but undeniably cookie-cutter) theme to modify slightly and slap on it, and you'll be ready to go.
BUT
If you need an expandable system, able to adapt to your site's changing needs over time, use Drupal. It'll be hard at first and you'll need to configure a lot of things, but it'll fit the mold of your site's requirements, rather than your site's requirements having to change to fit the mold of the CMS.
I think it's important to note that organizations or people serious about having a truly professional website shouldn't expect to find one pre-configured and pre-themed. They should expect to get their hands a little dirty getting things right - or pay someone to do the same.
Joomla! isn't bad for certain use cases, but Drupal can do everything Joomla! can and more with some configuration. Drupal has a higher learning curve, but it pays off in the end.
I agree perfectly with VIK
I think the IBM's consultant is a great review and reflects sound knowledge and experience with both platforms. Personally, I have benefit from reading the review and other comments on this blog.
I have decided to take the long and tedious approach of learning Drupal believing that the end will justify the means for me
Thanks
At this point, Drupal for me is like an old shoe, comfortable, familiar, homey. I sometimes dream in Garland.
I have difficulty remembering how challenging it was when I first started. How incomprehensible Taxonomy was, and how I couldn't wrap my head around CCK/Views.
I used Joomla and WordPress for the first time in the last couple of weeks, and I was able to understand the principles in a matter of hours, minutes even. Not because I'm brilliant, but because the level of complexity demanded of the brain is just so much lower than it is for Drupal.
A higher level of complexity is unavoidable and necessary. (If you have a vision for your enterprise-level site, and you don't want to compromise, you need to accept that it will take time and hard work.) And that's why Drupal is the future of web development in a way that Joomla manifestly is not.
Longtime Joomla users have an emotional investment that precludes them from seeing the writing on the wall: the future is content-centrism, SEO-awareness, community building, and scalability. All areas where Drupal excels. But the biggest reason it is the right direction is its mutability: as the web moves in rapid and unpredictable directions, the CMS that will grow along with it is the one that provides an infinitely-configurable framework.
WordPress hits a happy medium, because it can easily be managed by someone with a reasonable knowledge of HTML/CSS. Developers respect it and designers LOVE it. Both WP and Drupal have the elusive 'cool' factor that has eluded Joomla. That matters, too.
Joomla seems like the one stuck in the middle - too complex/fancy for the average user, but not complex enough for the enterprise-level sites. I predict it will dwindle to a small, dedicated user base. Nothing wrong with it, exactly, just a casualty of an dynamic, rapidly-evolving market.
Interesting comparison...I am looking into both and its nice to get this type of perspective.